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We got a lot, and I mean A LOT of requests from readers asking us to analyze their financial situation. In fact, our inbox is regularly described as an “exploding fireball of chaos,” so it can be difficult to get through all the emails before another bucket gets dumped on top of the pile.
But sometimes, just sometimes, one of them cuts through the entire pile and just DEMANDS to be featured. This is one of those times (edited for brevity):
Greetings!
I sent you an email before that was not clear, I was a bit excited because this is a new job I am getting after a bit of a setback due to layoffs.
Here are my stats:
Net income: $41,002 a year ($60,500 before taxes)
Total student loan debt : $43,300.90+ $9,420.77 (interest) = $52,420.67
7 loans at 6.8% interest
1 loan at 3.4% interest
1 loan at 4.5% interest
1 loan at 5.6% interest
1 loan at 6% interest
1 loan at 5% interest
3 credit cards:
Card 1 owes $500
Card 2 owes $450
Card 3 owes $968
Monthly expenses:
Rent: $595
Car insurance: $50
Renters insurance: $20
Gym membership: $22.75/month
Martial arts/combat sports: $30/month
(fighting tournament fees approximately $200/year give or take my tournament attendance)
Food=$250-$300 a month, all cooked at home no takeout
Internet bill=$70
Power=$30
Gas for car $75-100
Marketing for my business(s)=$250 (give or take $100)
Savings=$2,424.91
Taxes owed due to early withdrawal=$3.5K total
Note: The rent I pay is a grad student rate. Average rate for the city I live in is $800-1000/month in rent not including utilities. So lets just say $950. I am aiming to calculate my “retirement number” based on average rent prices (utilities included).
I also do some real estate (I own no homes but I do wholesaling),web development, internet marketing, programming and voice over work on the “side” to add to my income. I even got an offer from a rich old lady to be her manwhore ( I’m serious) but Im not going to do it. I earn anywhere from $15K to $30K extra depending on the projects I do, so lets just say an extra $15k per quarter.
Profits have been slim so far (Im just getting started), but any profits I make, 80% of them will go towards paying off debt and the rest will go to my “early retirement.”
I have calculated my “retirement number” to be $456,000 based on $950 over the course of 40 years ($950*12*40). Of course I will not stop working, I will just stop working in the offices/labs of others and work in my own studio(s) on the projects I aforementioned.
I am excited, this time last year I was laid off, my engine blew out in my car and I emptied my savings, credit cards AND retirement to get my car fully functional as well as keep from being homeless. I just got this new job and I’m start soon, I found the cheap grad student apartment and want a solid plan moving forward.
What are your thoughts on this? Suggestions?
Should I become a manwhore?
–MW
First of all, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! +1
If anyone out there wants to make sure their case gets read, this is how you do it.
So tabling that brilliant question (for now), let’s start by looking at your numbers and TOTALLY not sniggering like a 10 year old boy, MW here has actually set himself up nicely for success here. His earnings are good, especially when adding in those side hustles. Mad props to him for that.
Case Summary:
| Summary: | |
|---|---|
| Net Income: | $41,002 (full-time income) |
| Gross Side Income: | $15,000*4 (side income) = $60,000/year |
| Expenses (assuming average rent in the area): | $950 + $50 + $20 + $22.75 + $30 + $17 + $300 + $70 + $30 + $100 = $1589.75 |
| Debt: | $52,420.67 + $500 + $450 + $968 + $3,500 = $57,838.67 |
| Assets: | $2,424.91 |
A few suggestions to be made. MW’s calculation of his FI number is incorrect.
The FI number is calculated by taking your total monthly spend x 12 x 25. Multiplying by 25 is the same as dividing by 4%, and comes from the formula
Portfolio x 4% = Expenses
So that becomes…
Portfolio = Expenses / 4%
Portfolio = Expenses x 25.
So MW’s actual FI number is $1589.75 (added up expenses, excluding tax-deductible business expenses) x 12 x 25 = $476,925.
Secondly, he needs to pay off his credit cards. Now. There’s no reason to hold a credit card balance when you have the cash to kill it.
As for his savings, with his net earnings of $41k / 12 = $3417 per month, you are saving about $1827 a month, or $21,924 a year. Now add in your side income. $15k a quarter or $60k a year may not be sustainable going forward once you start working full time, so let’s say he’s only able to work on side income 50% of the time, dropping his side income to $30k a year. After taxes + expenses that bumps your savings rate from $22k to $40k a year. Seems pretty reasonable, but if he disagrees he can replace it with his own numbers based on how many side jobs he wants to maintain going forward.
How long does it take for MW to get to FI? Well, considering his starting point of -$55,413.76 (student debt + credit card debt + current savings) and having the whole thing compound at 6% (first your debt, then in investments), you get to FI in just…11 years!
| Year | Balance | Savings | ROI | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0 | -$55,413.76 | $40,000.00 | -$3,330.00 | -$18,830.00 |
| 1 | -$18,830.00 | $40,000.00 | -$1,129.80 | $20,040.20 |
| 2 | $20,040.20 | $40,000.00 | $1,202.41 | $61,242.61 |
| 3 | $61,242.61 | $40,000.00 | $3,674.56 | $104,917.17 |
| 4 | $104,917.17 | $40,000.00 | $6,295.03 | $151,212.20 |
| 5 | $151,212.20 | $40,000.00 | $9,072.73 | $200,284.93 |
| 6 | $200,284.93 | $40,000.00 | $12,017.10 | $252,302.03 |
| 7 | $252,302.03 | $40,000.00 | $15,138.12 | $307,440.15 |
| 8 | $307,440.15 | $40,000.00 | $18,446.41 | $365,886.56 |
| 9 | $365,886.56 | $40,000.00 | $21,953.19 | $427,839.75 |
| 10 | $427,839.75 | $40,000.00 | $25,670.39 | $493,510.14 |
| 11 | $493,510.14 | $40,000.00 | $29,610.61 | $563,120.74 |
Despite that big student debt, MW’s impressive side hustles and well-controlled living expenses are what will get him there.
So this is a good example of what happens if you figure out the math early. It doesn’t matter how far behind you are when you start, you can always dig yourself out if you understand the math.
And finally, back to his original question “Should I become a manwhore?”
I think I speak on behalf of the entire Internet when I say…
You’re not the Hero the FI community asked for, but you’re the Hero we so desperately need.
Do it, then start a blog called “Manwhoring my way to FI” and I promise you I will feature you when you launch.
DOOOOO IIIIIIT!
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There’s nothing wrong with being a “gentleman companion” ;p
It sounds like a pretty sweet gig. I wonder if it’s anything like that “Gigolos” show…
Although I worked several jobs since I was twelve (newspaper delivery boy, video store clerk, grocery store stock boy), I got my real financial start in the world at the age of 19 from spreading my naked ass cheeks on webcam for gay men back in the early 2000s, even though I’m not gay. A self-described internet pioneer, of sorts. Later, I would do straight couple shows. Never did gay-for-pay in real life, but considered it. I had student loans and bills to pay.
Never had the brains nor discipline to become an engineer, doctor, or lawyer, so I went the entrepreneur route (albeit in a non-traditional line of business). It gave me the capital I needed to develop my own online business. Many years of hard work in the business (marketing, development, lawsuits) and two mortgage free properties later I’m grateful for my early life choices. Just over a month ago I sold what remained of my online business and am FI.
Today, I’m the one spending money to have sex with students who are in need of money. Incredible.
Good Lord, I hope this is a joke…That’s certainly not a life I would be grateful for if not. To each their own I guess.
No sir, this is not a joke. As they say, there are more ways than one to skin a cat. The endgame was the same – financial freedom – however we all do what comes naturally to us, more or less, to get there. I had a difficult time finding employment after my first year at university, and quite frankly I didn’t want another boss anyway. I wanted to be my own boss.
Come to think of it, it was a remarkable time in our social evolution. The internet was beginning to take center stage in the lives of millions the world over. The internet bubble had just burst but it set a clear example to observers like me that money could be made online. I launched a variety of mainstream sites and they all failed. Then I started to focus on my strengths – my sexuality, and sex – the only thing I’ve ever truly excelled at both from a mental and physiological standpoint. Everyone has to find their own lane in life and this was mine. I have a friend who sells crack cocaine to people for a living – from everyday Joes to bums who live on the street. I was never good at that, and to me, that’s crazy, especially for someone with a wife and kids like he does. But it works for him and dare I say, suits him.
Webcamming was not something I wanted to do for very long, though it was lucrative. I tried to be creative. I did more than just the typical d*ck-beating on the couch stuff. I would do it in public, too. When I started doing couples shows I was able to expand on ideas for interesting shows, and it was my female partner at any given time, that was now the primary focus.
Nonetheless, I saved money from camming and launched a new business in what I knew best – hardcore porn. Remember, this was before porn tube sites and before ‘bangbus’ reality porn sites. The internet was a free-for-all and cutting a slice out of it for myself was relatively easy. In those days you could make money in porn by throwing up a simple webpage with a few pics on it.
My business evolved alongside the internet which became more challenging (i.e. competitive and expensive) as it matured. I lost tens of thousands of dollars when credit card processing companies like Globill and Ibill went out of business. In an effort to bolster one of my online properties I added unlicensed content to it. That landed me in federal court, at the age of 26, and I had to pay around CDN $300,000 to make it go away. It still hurts when I think of how much money that is and what it could have done for me. It would have allowed me to buy another property sooner, become mortgage free sooner, or have sex with 2000 more escorts at $150 a pop. To put it into perspective, I’ve bedded just over 1200 Torontonian women thus far (a dream come true). A lot, to be sure, but far from eclipsing 2000.
All in all, I could not be happier. If I went back in time, I would do it all over again, sans the big lawsuit (there were smaller ones, too). Now that I’m FI, I can do whatever I want whenever I want. I will begin travelling this winter. In fact, I will never spend another winter in Toronto. When I came across this blog, I thought it was a well crafted scheme to get my money somehow. A ‘get rich quick’ ploy. But I’m happy I decided to read it instead of closing my browser. As a result, I have a healthy ETF investment too!
Ooookay, did not need you to go into so much detail! Let’s just say I’m glad you found your calling and have reached your FI goals. For everything else, let’s just say I wish I had a M.I.B. “forget everything” pen…
HA HA, you’re scarred for life.
Live and let live!
Actually, I really hope this ISN’T a joke.
HAHAHA! I absolutely love this quote: “Today, I’m the one spending money to have sex with students who are in need of money. Incredible.” Quality comment.
I know. Tommy wins the internet!
You, sir, are you my hero. Spread those butt cheeks, wide with pride, amigo. The internet salutes you.
Also, you need to start a blog STAT.
I’m not sure about the market rates, but I think it would be interesting to add a scenario B and check with how many years would manwhoring reduce reaching FI 🙂
TTR (Time To Retirement) versus WTTR (Whore Time To Retirement). I think we just discovered a whole new FI term. The latter will get you there much faster…if you don’t mind the sticky aftermath.
I agree FIRECracker. Though there is genuine humor in the notion of whoring, it really is a ‘legitimate’ option for getting closer to FI. It is the oldest profession for a reason. But like credit cards, whoring only works if it’s utilized properly. Otherwise it can destroy you. Most escorts I’ve met use the funds to pay down school and consumer debt, and go on to find ordinary jobs. Sometimes they become very successful people. They typically reach important financial goals sooner than their friends who grind thru school on the low wage salaries earned in mainstream gigs.
That’s a good one 🙂 I guess I’m gonna watch Deuce Bigalow tonight 🙂
I can’t provide any guidance on whether or not to do it, but perhaps the guys from Flight Of The Conchords can:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3omQikQYmgY
XD
Hey, Wanderer has a pair of shorts like that!
That would explain why he always smells like cigarettes. And herpes.
When I see lists of expenses like the one above I’m kind of surprised. I’m all for financial independence but when a list of expenses for a person includes virtually no discretionary spending I have to wonder whether they will really be happy with that their entire life.
For example, here is a list of things I personally budget for that this person could be missing:
– Vacations – are they happy never traveling? That’s a huge budget of mine and one I want to increase
– Meals out/takeaway – do they want to cook every meal at home their entire life?
– Gifts – do they never buy gifts for family and friends? This one was a big surprise when we begun budgeting.
– Extra curricular activities – do they never go to the movies, concerts, sports events or have any other hobbies that cost money (I see they do combat sports, which is something)
– Shopping – everyone has to buy some things, even if they’re frugal. What about clothes, furniture, technology, appliances etc.?
– Pets/Children – do they never want to have a pet or a child? Retirement can get lonely, especially if you’re single (as this person appears to be)
– Car Insurance/Maintenance/Replacement – there is nothing in this budget for anything car related other than gas. Accruing for the necessary costs for insurance, maintenance and replacing your vehicle is expensive. This alone could easily add $200 – $400 per month, depending on the vehicle and how often it is driven.
– Cell Phone – does this person not have a phone, now or in the future?
– Healthcare – I notice there is no healthcare here at all, which might be accurate now, but will it be forever? Perhaps it will be, perhaps not.
That’s just a few things this person could be missing in their expenses that need to be considered for retirement. I suspect their monthly spending could actually be quite a bit higher.
Their focus might be on getting the essentials covered. Once the essentials are covered, luxuries like travel, eating out, theatre trips, gifts, etc are paid for from part time work, if the luxuries are wanted.
I think the focus isn’t on how terrible the work is and the resulting desire to retire from that work, but to be free from worrying about how one is to pay for the essentials.
Not for me. FI is about reaching a point in life where I can cover the expenses of a reasonably decent quality off life, not an absolute bare necessities life, but I see your point.
Regardless, there are certainly some expenses they are missing, like all the vehicle expenses.
Oh sure, but leanfire is a step towards fire and maybe fatfire.
I always thought leanfire was just reaching FI on a low income, didn’t think it was reaching FI and living on bare necessities after retirement. Never heard of fatfire but upon reading about it, that’s for sure me haha.
I don’t really get why anyone would aim to live on bare necessities though. The difference between reaching a portfolio value that is large enough to cover necessities, and a portfolio value that is large enough to afford some luxuries is only a couple of extra years work.
It doesn’t take many years of gains to go from, say, a $500,000 portfolio to a $750,000 portfolio. In fact, if the above person kept investing $40,000 he would go from $500,000 to $750,000 in just 3 years. That would provide an additional $10,000 a year, every year, for life. I know I’d rather work an extra 3 years to go from having $20,000 to $30,000 a year to live off of for the rest of my life.
Fatfire…is that like a fire who filled up on twigs way too early on in the meal and now feels bloated? 😛
Uhmm, more like you travel 24/7, but five star hotels only. There is a reddit …
https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/
I got my ITIL, a big thank you to everyone here who told me to go for it!
Wow, well done! 🙂
I am fine living without most of that stuff as far as eating out, traveling, extracurricular activities, shopping etc. In my own budget I put about a $200/month misc to cover anything extra that might come up such a car repairs, vet bills, gifts, shopping but most months I go without spending on any of that stuff. My cell costs $100 a year prepaid and I don’t even use most of that. I am an artist so I make a lot of the gifts I give out so they cost a lot of time but not a lot of money. I am completely happy living this way as I my spouse doesn’t enjoy going out to eat and we now live on a small island where there isn’t much takeout. I don’t travel well and my spouse doesn’t like leaving the house so we spend most of our time at home play video games and creating art and both agree that we’d rather go to the dentist than see a movie. Due to this low cost lifestyle my spouse has been able to retire at 34 and I am semi retired working from home 20 hours a week at age 30. It might not be the life most people would want but it’s the ideal life for us. The only thing that will make it better is getting our art business going so I can quit my job too.
He did mention he wanted to keep working on his side gigs after he becomes FI…so could be using that to cover those extras.
It would depend on:
The specific manwhoring details of the job
The pay rate
How badly do you want to work less than 11 years.
I second the idea of a plan B chart showing years to FI with manwhoring.
See, this is why he needs to start a blog. I have so many questions:
1) How much does it pay?
2) How many hours do you work?
3) Does health insurance cover STDs?
4) Does health insurance cover removing wooden dentures from your penis?
5) Is there a union?
6) Is the union leader Channing Tatum?
7) Why isn’t it Channing Tatum?
8) CHANNING TATUM 2018!!!
Job details; and any other related tasks! ??
Just want to give another perspective.
Assuming you start working at, let’s say, McDonald’s, at age 15 for $10 per hour, 40 hours a week, save every dollar of your salary, and put that into an investment account that has an average return of 7% annually, after working 15 years, at age 30, you would have $522,680 in your account.
You can then retire.
Why go to college/school at all?
(The downside of course is that your parents would have to support you until age 30. But you can also just quit school at age 15, work 60-80 hours a week instead of 40 for that extra income to support yourself.)
Try telling a 15 year old about financial independence and see how far you get. Hindsight is a bitch, I think most of us would have acted differently from a younger age if we knew the benefits we would be realizing now.
Truth is, most teens only care about one thing, societal status. That can take all manner of things, but it usually involves spending money (be it on clothes, technology, make up, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, sports, games, concerts, travel etc.) I was earning more than $10 from 15 onward and never saved a penny of it. The only reason I worked was to earn discretionary money for the above expenses.
It’s not until you leave education that most people start to even think about retirement, and even then most don’t consider it until well into their adult life. I’m thankful I discovered FI at 26.
I guess the McDonald’s route would be one way to go, but I sure wouldn’t want to do it. How much perspective on the world are you going to gain by working non-stop in a fast-food joint while living in your parents’ basement through arguably the most important years in a person’s self-development? Those 15 years of my life where I learned, loved, travelled, had adventures, became independent, and generally figured out who the hell I was are worth more to me than the $522,000 I could save up.
Financial stability is important, but it isn’t everything. If I were to give up that much of the prime of my life, I’d need to get a lot more than half a million – only enough to get about $20,000/year to live off of – out of it.
For those aspiring to become 30-year-old virgins, that’s totally legit. Because everyone knows living with your parents is the world’s best aphrodisiac.
“manwhore…”
financial stuff…skim, skim, skim…
some numbers…skim, skim, skim…
financial advice words…skim, skim, skim…
number chart…skim, skim, skim…
more words…skim, skim, skim…
Finally….
“DOOOOO IIIIIIT!
“Come meet us at this year’s Chautauqua UK! Details here”
Mmmm…
So, you’ve invited a manwhore to Chautauqua? That’ll be a first. At least to my knowledge.
Maybe we should start with a womanwhore and work our way up? (down?) 😉
I like the way you think. Whores for everyone! BEST CHAUTAUQUA EVER!
How the heck does he pay $50 in car insurance? Insurance in Ontario is $100 minimum.
Where did he say he was in Ontario? Insurance rates in the US are often peanuts. I myself pay about $50/month in Montreal for my 2 old cars combined – liability only on an ’04 Concorde and full coverage for my summer car, a ’99 Miata.
I’m increasingly noticing that some Ontarians forget that the rest of the world exists. Maybe that’s why some are spending 7 figures on houses that would cost almost an order of magnitude less if they moved a few hours’ drive away, while, on average, earning mediocre incomes.
“some Ontarians forget that the rest of the world exists. Maybe that’s why some are spending 7 figures on houses that would cost almost an order of magnitude less if they moved a few hours’”
BINGO. I’m not sure it’s Ontarians…more like Torontonians. We seem to think we’re the center of the universe. Blah blah blah “world city”…blah blah blah “just ask Drake”.
Consider one of the offers from Credit card companies for 0% interest, the fee is actually 1% up front, and is usually only good for 6 months, but you can amalgamate your debt at a much lower rate. It takes some management, and a good calendar software to stay on top of it but it works. We use these offers to fund short term projects, and start an automatic monthly withdrawl to pay them off just before the due date.
good work
While I do like the idea of amalgamating debt at a lower rate, it’s probably a bigger hassle to keep track of it, and he will likely get hit with a much higher rate in 6 months. Probably easier to just pay it off and forget about it.
Can’t…stop…laughing! Manwhoring for extra income? Oh hell yes! 😀
Opportunity has definitely come knocking for this gentleman!
Like I always say, resourceful people will ALWAYS find a way…especially if they use the right “tool”. And especially if the competition isn’t too “stiff”. Eh? Eh?
*crickets*
Good to hear that you are giving something back to the sexworker community that gave you your start Tommy.
Crazy ass blog…
I just asked the wife if I should pick up another side hustle man whoring. She just said, “Honey!?!?”
I’m pretty sure the answer is no.
Bwahahaha. You should’ve said: “That wasn’t a no.”
Manwhoring…..make sure to stock up on them blue pills incase you come across a not so appealing and stinky one!!! Haha, good luck.
I was LOLing this entire thread. This was some of the most amusing reading I’ve cum across in quite awhile … especially since I had “pure” intentions re: FI.
In another life … where I am not married … and have no faith beliefs … MAYBE … I could condone this. But … some things are just not “worth it.”
Dignity and all that. YMMV.